Franci Jarrard and Lyse Moore oral history and transcript

Rice University

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0:37 - Jarrard discusses her early life and what drew her to music

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: Okay. I'll start. My early life. I grew up in west Houston. Um, and I actually, what drew me to music, I always loved music. I drove my family crazy playing the record player. I just, they gave me piano lessons at age 5, and this girl loves the music, and I fell in love with Peter Gorisch

Subjects: Peter Gorisch

1:21 - Moore's early life and what drew her to music

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Partial Transcript: Lyse Moore: My family helped settle Houston. I'm from an old Houston family, so they started to take me to the symphony when I was 4 years old.

2:09 - How Jarrard and Moore met

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: I met Lyse in sixth grade. Her parents put us together. They were church friends.

3:25 - Becoming a part of the Houston music scene

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Partial Transcript: Lyse Moore: College.

Franci Files Jarrard: I was at UT. Uh, Peter came back from the service. He was in the Marines and when he came back he was [mimics sound of car engine] like a magnet down at the Montrose. He met Guy Clark.

Subjects: Bill Cade; Don Sanders; Guy Clark; Lucille Cade; Townes Van Zandt

5:02 - Early clubs they went to

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: No. I didn't ever, I never, I heard of the Jester, but I never went to the Jester. I, my first place was Sand Mountain.

Norie Guthrie: Okay.

Franci Files Jarrard: And I, La Maison. I went there on dates, but the first place I was really a part of was Sand Mountain.

Subjects: La Maison; Sand Mountain Coffee House

6:38 - Sand Mountain Coffee House and Old Quarter

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: Yeah. That would be right.

Lyse Moore: and the Old Quarter.

Norie Guthrie: and the Old Quarter. Well, I'll get to the Old Quarter next.

Subjects: Corrine Carrick; Guy Clark; Old Quarter; Peter Gorisch; Sand Mountain Coffee House; Townes Van Zandt

12:50 - Living with and hanging out with Guy Clark, Susanna Talley, and Townes Van Zandt

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: Oh gosh, what a magic time. They were magic, and they were –

Lyse Moore: What about sharin' the house?

Franci Files Jarrard: Well, Peter and I actually lived in Stratford House with Guy and Susanna, and, uh, it was, gosh, what a special time that was.

Subjects: Eric Taylor; George Ensle; Guy Clark; Susanna Clark; Townes Van Zandt; Vince Bell

16:53 - Living in Oregon

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: Oregon's a beautiful place. I ran there, that was after Peter and I split up. It was kind of hard to hang out in the Old Quarter when I wasn't Peter's wife, you know.

19:24 - Moving back to Houston and discovering Anderson Fair Retail Restaurant

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Partial Transcript: Lyse Moore: I came back first –

Norie Guthrie: Mm hmm.

Lyse Moore: – and Vince Bell took me to Anderson Fair. I remember we had gone to Galveston for the afternoon, the surf was up and we were body surfing and I got picked upside down and had a slight concussion, and then that evening he took me to Anderson Fair and they liked me and said bring her back, and I, I really never left.

Subjects: Anderson Fair Retail Restaurant; Don Sanders; Eric Taylor; Lyle Lovett; Marvin Anderson; Pat Stout; Robbie Franklin; Roger Ruffcorn; Sandy Mathis; Stephen Jarrard; Walter Spinks

25:51 - Stories about Anderson Fair and Moore's work with chimpanzees

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Partial Transcript: Lyse Moore: After Franci came, I was back and forth between Anderson Fair and Texas A&M. I went back for a master's in forestry. Before I finished that up I had an epiphany one weekend in Houston and had read the first work on sign language with chimpanzees, and I said this is what I'm going to do with my life.

30:02 - The performers at Anderson Fair

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: Oh wow, that's a big question. There were a lot of those people, yeah, and a lot of 'em I still know. A lot of 'em are very special.

Lyse Moore: Bill Staines, talk about Bill Staines.

Franci Files Jarrard: Let's talk about Bill Staines. Bill Staines goes back before Anderson Fair. I met Bill Staines in 1969. Right after I graduated from UT, I went to school up in Boston, and I met Bill Staines.

Subjects: Bill Cade; Bill Staines; Cypress Swamp Stompers; Eric Taylor; Linda Lowe; Malcolm Smith; Reb Smith; Richard Dobson; Rock Romano; Stephen Jarrard; Tim Leatherwood; Vince Bell; Walter Spinks

40:38 - Moore and Townes Van Zandt

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Partial Transcript: Lyse Moore: Townes would drop by. Tim Leatherwood and I got that house at some point after she had left the house. Townes would still come and stay. He would come and sober up to come see his mom that lived in River Oaks at the time.

42:11 - Jarrard starting her music career

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: You know, I'd managed the restaurant for about 3 years, and that was just a completely fulltime job –

Norie Guthrie: Mm hmm.

Franci Files Jarrard: – and all I, what I did was cook spaghetti, clean bathrooms, sweep floors, open Shiner beers and, uh, I guess when I retired from that after about 3 years what I wanted to do was be a musician.

Subjects: Anderson Fair Retail Restaurant; Stephen Jarrard

45:03 - Moore going to the University of Oklahoma Primate Institute for her primate research

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: You ended up in Oklahoma.

Lyse Moore: I ran out of grants at A&M working on my doctorate with the chimp. I placed her in New Mexico for awhile. I was devastated. Came back to Anderson Fair, of course.

Subjects: Nim Chimpsky; University of Oklahoma Primate Institute

47:12 - Jarrard playing music

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: While meanwhile at Anderson Fair I guess I was at that point, uh, pursuing my music, and I played with, with Stephen for awhile, but at this point we had begun living together as well, and it just, it became too much

Subjects: Bill Cade; Linda Williams; Richard Dobson; Rock Romano; Terry and the Telephones

50:52 - Moore's primate research, death of her chimps, meeting Richard Dobson

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Partial Transcript: Lyse Moore: Now my part, we go back, so I'm at the chimp farm, things are bright, cheery. I had received really good grants for a couple baby twin chimps I had raised and I was gonna do a communication with them and acquisition of language between them and my older chimp, Lily, that I still had.

Subjects: Nashville; Tim Leatherwood; Townes Van Zandt

55:55 - Jarrard and her husband Stephen moving to Austin and playing music

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: Um, at first we were just a duet, kind of like we had been, and that evolved into a country western band which took us to beer joints and dance halls, and our luck changed when we met a violin player, Javier Chaparro, and Javier turned our life around because he's, he's a concert violinist and he kinda took us under his wing.

Subjects: Javier Chaparro; Richard Dobson

58:29 - Moore's life in Nashville and animal training

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Partial Transcript: Lyse Moore: I've always worked with animals. People here always call me the cowgirl. I've had horses. So, I decided to be a professional cowgirl. I kept waiting for something to take back off with the chimps. It didn't happen.

Subjects: animal training; Dixie Nationals

63:09 - Current life and reflecting on Houston's folk scene

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Partial Transcript: Franci Files Jarrard: We like to play dominoes. What is our life like now? We, we cook a lot.

Lyse Moore: Before I went to –

Franci Files Jarrard: We’re retired.

Lyse Moore: – Nashville, Franci and Stephen wanted a place of their own and I wanted a little piece of Texas before I left, so we bought property together.

0:00

Norie Guthrie: My name is Norie Guthrie from the Woodson Research Center, Fondren Library, Rice University. I'm interviewing Franci Files Jarrard and Lyse Moore. Today is September 8th, 2017. This is part of the Houston Folk Music Archive Oral History project. Could you take turns and tell me about your early life and what drew you to music?

Lyse Moore: You first.

Franci Files Jarrard: Okay. I'll start. My early life. I grew up in west Houston. Um, and I actually, what drew me to music, I always loved music. I drove my family crazy playing the record player. I just, they gave me piano lessons at age 5, and this girl loves the music, and I fell in love with Peter Gorisch and met him in my church group as teenagers and he really introduced me 1:00to the Montrose and the music scene. Through him, he gave me the avenue into the music world that I really sought to be in. That's my story. Your story.

Lyse Moore: My family helped settle Houston. I'm from an old Houston family, so they started to take me to the symphony when I was 4 years old. If I was good I got to go backstage and shake the first violinist's hand. Mr. Gorisch. Peter was his son. I've known him since junior high. He and Franci really introduced me to the music scene as I was finishing up college and spending more time in Houston and they took me to the clubs, Old Quarter, Sand Mountain; I met everyone that later became my close friends here in the '70s through them.

2:00

Norie Guthrie: So, how did you two, can you kind of describe, like, that first time that you met?

Franci Files Jarrard: I met Lyse in sixth grade. Her parents put us together. They were church friends. We keep bringing up this church thing because that was an important part of our life and our upbringing and we went to Sunday School together and we were gonna go to school together. I just moved to her neighborhood and so we took their advice and we became friends and it just kinda worked out. Look at us. Here we are. It's years later and we're still friends. What's your story?

Lyse Moore: I'll tell the dirt.

Franci Files Jarrard: Okay. You tell the dirt.

Lyse Moore: I remember us meeting in Hunters Creek Elementary School, and we went into the ladies' room. We went to the bathroom and she taught me my first dirty words.

Franci Files Jarrard: I --

Lyse Moore: It went from --

Franci Files Jarrard: She's making that up. She's making that up. But I did teach her her first dirty words.

Lyse Moore: And we lived a mile apart from each other and we would ride our horses back and forth to each other's house and go to Memorial Park and ride our horses.

Franci Files Jarrard: Uh huh.

3:00

Lyse Moore: That was sort of growing up.

Franci Files Jarrard: Uh huh. That was junior high. That was pre-boys, but we were gettin' there.

Norie Guthrie: Um, what, so you could have talked a little bit about your first interactions playing the piano and listening to the record player and with you going to the symphony. When, when did you kind of start becoming more of the heart of the Houston music scene?

Lyse Moore: College.

Franci Files Jarrard: I was at UT. Uh, Peter came back from the service. He was in the Marines and when he came back he was [mimics sound of car engine] like a magnet down at the Montrose. He met Guy Clark. He met Don Sanders. He met Bill and Lucille Cade. And that's where, that's where it all started for me. Met Townes Van Zandt. Guy Clark. They, it just kept coming. Peter took us there and I was in, I was still in college. He was, he was out of the, he was out of the Marines. He went to the Marines. What's your story?

4:00

Lyse Moore: I hadn't seen Franci for a few years in college. I was a little behind her in college and my last year of college I hooked back up with her in Houston. I was going to Stephen F. Austin about to graduate in forestry. Her dad took me to Washington, D.C. to meet the chief of the forest service and there my forestry career was takin' off whether I wanted it or not. I had it and I hooked back up with Franci and Pete and started goin' to clubs here and --

Franci Files Jarrard: Sand Mountain.

Lyse Moore: -- and then I was here a year after I graduated, waiting for my Forest Service commission to come in. So, I, I lived the life. I embraced everyone I met. I was like a sponge. I soaked it up. I loved the people. I loved the words. I loved the music.

Norie Guthrie: Was it too early for either of you to have gone to the Jester?

5:00

Franci Files Jarrard: No. I didn't ever, I never, I heard of the Jester, but I never went to the Jester. I, my first place was Sand Mountain.

Norie Guthrie: Okay.

Franci Files Jarrard: And I, La Maison. I went there on dates, but the first place I was really a part of was Sand Mountain.

Norie Guthrie: Okay. What was, not too many people talk about La Maison. What was that like?

Franci Files Jarrard: La Maison?

Norie Guthrie: Uh huh.

Franci Files Jarrard: It was just an old house. Um, and it had, you, you kinda sat on the floor. They had pillows and blankies and comfy things, but I don't remember tables and chairs. You kinda just lounged about on pillows and drank little coffeehouse drinks. This was in high school. It didn't matter. We didn't drink anyway. But it was a coffeehouse in, in an old house somewhere in I wanna say the Montrose kind of area, Alabama, don't really remember exactly.

Norie Guthrie: Okay. Um, was it a place that was pretty popular to go to?

6:00

Franci Files Jarrard: You know. This was the '60s. What does popular look like?

Lyse Moore: You certainly didn't have to stand in line to get in.

Norie Guthrie: Okay.

Lyse Moore: I will say that.

Norie Guthrie: And who, who did you see play there?

Franci Files Jarrard: I think I saw Don Sanders, but I, I can't even remember for sure. Like I said, it was long before I met him. He's a few years older than myself. I was in high school.

Norie Guthrie: Okay. Um, so you both hung around, um, Sand Mountain Coffee House, around the same time, around 1969?

Franci Files Jarrard: Yeah. That would be right.

Lyse Moore: and the Old Quarter.

Norie Guthrie: and the Old Quarter. Well, I'll get to the Old Quarter next.

Franci Files Jarrard: Soon, soon after that. Yeah.

Norie Guthrie: Um, could you talk about that experience? Like, um, like what the, the building was like, the clientele, Mrs. Carrick, other performers?

Franci Files Jarrard: Gosh. The building. I barely remember. I think it was on Richmond or Alabama. Kind of a simple one-story wood frame building. I remember 7:00a great mural inside --

Lyse Moore: The mural.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- yeah. I think it was Townes, Jerry Jeff Walker, Guy --

Lyse Moore: Guy.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- and maybe Mickey Newbury, who I never knew. But it, they were plastered on the wall, but I spent most of my time in the back room.

Lyse Moore: And there's a garage apartment above it that Bill and Lucille moved in.

Franci Files Jarrard: And Peter lived there for awhile too.

Lyse Moore: Yeah.

Franci Files Jarrard: If you lived in the apartment upstairs, you were responsible for hosting. You were the person who got up and emceed the shows and, uh, I, everyone we knew kinda took turns at the show at some point. It was a big honor as a singer songwriter to live upstairs and be the host.

Norie Guthrie: What was the back room like?

Franci Files Jarrard: You know, I think it was a couch and a chair, maybe. It wasn't much of anything --

Lyse Moore: Yeah.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- but I spent a lot of time back there and that's where I met Reb Smith and a lot of people. We, I don't know. We just kinda, back rooms 8:00were where it was at and we didn't do anything in the back room. This was prior to drinking or smoking or any of those things. We just --

Lyse Moore: Tea.

Franci Files Jarrard: I don't know. We just visited. We just hung out.

Lyse Moore: And I worked the door for Mrs. Carrick. Got closed I would drive her around some.

Franci Files Jarrard: I had my wedding there. Not my wedding, but my reception. Peter and I were married in, uh, 1969, I think it was.

Lyse Moore: Yes.

Franci Files Jarrard: And we had a small church wedding by my reception was at, at Sand Mountain and our friends cooked the food and served it. It was kind of a community thing.

Norie Guthrie: What was Mrs. Carrick like?

Franci Files Jarrard: Like a mom.

Lyse Moore: She was a big mom.

Franci Files Jarrard: She wasn't our mom, but she was everybody's mom. She tried to be everybody's mom.

Lyse Moore: She was everybody's mom and anyone that hung out or played there, she was their mom.

Franci Files Jarrard: She was considered your mother. Yeah.

Lyse Moore: And she wasn't pleased with the Old Quarter and their reputation.

9:00

Franci Files Jarrard: Her son was, is a musician as well. Still is, I'm sure. John Carrick.

Lyse Moore: Have you talked with him?

Franci Files Jarrard: Not in a long time, but occasionally I run into him.

Lyse Moore: Yeah. One time Townes was playing a biker bar in downtown Houston and she wanted to go there and support him so he wouldn't go the Old Quarter afterwards, so I drove her there. I'd never been to a biker bar. You know, I'm fresh meat, right out of forestry school. You know. This is all new to me so I go to this biker bar. They're actually very nice folks and she just pleaded with Townes to come back to Sand Mountain with us. Don't go to the Old Quarter and live that life.

Franci Files Jarrard: I think that suggestion failed. I think we all went to the Old Quarter. That's what I remember.

Norie Guthrie: So how --

Lyse Moore: I didn't tell her I was hangin' out at the Old Quarter also. On off nights.

10:00

Norie Guthrie: How did the Old Quarter compare to Sand Mountain?

Franci Files Jarrard: Night and day.

Lyse Moore: Night and day.

Franci Files Jarrard: They don't know, they don't, I think what they had in common is that they liked musicians. It was a very --

Lyse Moore: And musicians could get a job at both.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- And it was a place to play and then the comparison went away after that.

Lyse Moore: Yeah.

Norie Guthrie: So I've heard before, um, the Old Quarter was described as, as a darker kind of place. A little seedier. Harder drugs, that kind of, like, that's the kind of scene that was --

Franci Files Jarrard: Well, yeah. It was seedy. Yeah. Yeah.

Norie Guthrie: Um, why did you guys like hanging out at the Old Quarter?

Franci Files Jarrard: Because the musicians were there. I went there with Peter for the music. Yeah. That's where the, that was the place to play. They had live music. They had a stage, even though you had to tune to the air conditioner. It was kind of funky. Some of the tables were, like, sewing machine tables. It was funky, but it was a venue, and as a musician you were always looking for a 11:00venue. A place where you can play, and it certainly was that. And Dale and Rex offered that, and down we went, you know?

Norie Guthrie: Do you guys have any stories about either of those venues?

Franci Files Jarrard: Oh gosh, yes.

Norie Guthrie: That you want to share?

Lyse Moore: Oh.

Franci Files Jarrard: Mm.

Lyse Moore: Mm.

Franci Files Jarrard: Yes, no, maybe. Uh, many memories. More memories of Dale's voice on stage saying bathrooms upstairs, pool tables upstairs, popcorn upstairs, everything was upstairs at the Old Quarter except the music, and the music was downstairs and so was the bar.

Lyse Moore: And you'd go up on the roof and you could see the police station down below --

Franci Files Jarrard: -- Across on the street.

Lyse Moore: -- and see all the police cars.

Franci Files Jarrard: Yep, and Joy Llewellyn was always there. She was like a 12:00little Florence Nightingale, and, um, she had no vices. Everybody had vices. It was, we keep mentioning that. There were a lot of, this was, you know, this was the 70s, 60s, there were vices going on at the Old Quarter, and Joy was just always there with a little first aid kit. She took care of everybody, and you know, Joy still takes care of everybody. She's a wonderful person.

Norie Guthrie: So, during this same period, '69 to '71 you both either lived with or spent time hanging out with Guy Clark and Susanna Talley Guy's wife, and Townes Van Zandt. Um, what were they like at the time? Did they have an influence on you?

Franci Files Jarrard: Oh gosh, what a magic time. They were magic, and they were --

Lyse Moore: What about sharin' the house?

Franci Files Jarrard: Well, Peter and I actually lived in Stratford House with Guy and Susanna, and, uh, it was, gosh, what a special time that was. Susanna, 13:00at that period in her life was really painting a lot. I would come home, I was teaching school, which was kind of a challenge, teaching school by day and coming home and there's all these pickin' parties and Guy's writing songs, and Susanna's painting these pictures, and people would come over, Townes would come over, other people would come over. We'd be, there would be jams going on at the, the, the kitchen table. I have so many memories of sitting at the kitchen table in that house and all the creativity that was around me. I have no memories of when we ate, who cooked, or who did the dishes. I don't know that we, I don't know about that part. I can't remember that part. Um, you tell some of the story --

Lyse Moore: I spent most of my time over there. Susanna and I really hit it off. She and Guy were just together. They were so in love. She'd come down from Oklahoma City, had given up everything in her life and starting this new era, 14:00and I was sort of doing the same thing in my own way, so we talked a lot.

Franci Files Jarrard: We got very close to Susanna.

Lyse Moore: The music, there was music, uh, in the dining room. There were Volkswagen parts in the front room, there was music in the kitchen, there were dishes stacked up --

Franci Files Jarrard: Yeah, we didn't have any couches or anything.

Lyse Moore: -- as far as you could tell in the sink.

Franci Files Jarrard: Yeah.

Lyse Moore: And I'm, I was there a lot with Vince Bell, I was hanging a lot with Vince Bell and Eric Taylor and George Ensle. We spent a lot of time over there. I remember Townes coming for the first time when Guy wanted to introduce me. He thought, you know, I'd be a new date for him. It didn't work that way but Townes was a lifelong friend and actually was a big brother to me until the day he died. On that first visit, Townes had actually come to town 'cause he had to go to court, 'cause he had driven drunk into the plate glass window of a bar 15:00downtown and had gotten out and ordered a drink --

Franci Files Jarrard: That would be Townes.

Lyse Moore: -- and somehow got out of it.

Franci Files Jarrard: That would be Townes. To know Townes, to be with Guy and Susanna was a real good way to get to meet Townes because they were, they were buddies. All of those guys were buddies and they were, so that's, that was an era. That was an era.

Lyse Moore: I remember Townes visiting and Susanna wrote poety but she wanted to learn guitar so in the upstairs bedroom closet she would sequester herself and learn to play guitar, and she learned putting Townes' words to music that she would play and then eventually became a hit songwriter of her own later on.

Franci Files Jarrard: That's later.

Lyse Moore: But we knew her mainly as a painter then.

Norie Guthrie: Yeah, she spent a pretty short period of time here in Houston --

16:00

Franci Files Jarrard: It was a --

Norie Guthrie: -- it was pretty short.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- short period. I think it was 4 months that we lived with Guy and Susanna, but it was monumental.

Lyse Moore: Is it that all?

Franci Files Jarrard: Yeah.

Lyse Moore: Wow.

Franci Files Jarrard: But it was monumental. We were young. Four months was a monumental time. 'Cause it's different now.

Lyse Moore: And Franci's sister was responsible for helping them get to go to LA.

Franci Files Jarrard: Yeah, she bought one of their paintings. She actually had money. She had a husband who was a stockbroker, and they bought one of Susanna's paintings. It was very exciting at the time.

Norie Guthrie: Um, so then Lyse, you then ended up relocating to Oregon to work for the Forestry Service.

Lyse Moore: Yes.

Norie Guthrie: Um, and later Franci, Franci, you lived with her. What, what was that time like up in Oregon?

Franci Files Jarrard: Oregon's a beautiful place. I ran there, that was after Peter and I split up. It was kind of hard to hang out in the Old Quarter when I wasn't Peter's wife, you know. I had a, a new identity to face which was bein' 17:00me, and me just jumped in the car and drove away, and, uh, ended up in Oregon where she was, and Oregon's gorgeous, and I think it was a very special time. It was never home. We were always meant to come back because we were kind of oddballs in Oregon. They don't, they're a little different than Texans. They're, they're kind of mellow, you know, they --

Lyse Moore: They treated us better than those from California.

Franci Files Jarrard: Yeah, they liked us there.

Lyse Moore: And they thought we were cute. Face it, we were young.

Franci Files Jarrard: We were, we were young. We were cute.

Lyse Moore: I mean, I was livin' on a forest station east of Oregon 100 miles from the nearest town. Franci comes and we go to Eugene and I work on a forest near Eugene. So, to meet people, Franci had this house with an apple tree in the backyard. We would make apple pies and we would meet people and we would go visit and take apple pies and go visit and meet people.

Norie Guthrie: So you probably were in your mid to early 20s?

18:00

Franci Files Jarrard: Early 20s.

Norie Guthrie: Early 20s.

Franci Files Jarrard: I was probably 22.

Norie Guthrie: Okay. Was it, was it kind of scary to go up to Oregon just to kind of drop life here after you'd already just kind of lived here your whole life?

Franci Files Jarrard: No, we were just on an adventure.

Lyse Moore: Yeah.

Franci Files Jarrard: It wasn't scary. I didn't have any, in those days gas was cheap and I would, I would fill up my, I had a little Volkswagen square back. For $5.00 I could cover amazing miles. For $50.00 I could go across the country. I was fearless. No, I had no problems driving many hundreds of miles, not a problem.

Lyse Moore: We've always been travelers.

Franci Files Jarrard: Just an adventure.

Lyse Moore: An adventure.

Franci Files Jarrard: Adventure takes your mind off anything that might not be right. So, I was always into that, you know. When in doubt, go on an adventure and things would be better.

Lyse Moore: We never, I always had a hard time thinking of long term, always in 19:00the present, and I was doing what I was doing and I was trying to soak in all the knowledge and adventure I could.

Franci Files Jarrard: I think you have it. We like adventure. That's what we were doing.

Norie Guthrie: So around '72, '73, you both restarted your lives in Houston. Is that about right?

Lyse Moore: I came back first --

Norie Guthrie: Mm hmm.

Lyse Moore: -- and Vince Bell took me to Anderson Fair. I remember we had gone to Galveston for the afternoon, the surf was up and we were body surfing and I got picked upside down and had a slight concussion, and then that evening he took me to Anderson Fair and they liked me and said bring her back, and I, I really never left.

Norie Guthrie: Um, I guess, what was I gonna say, um, were you, how were your lives kinda different coming back to Houston after being away? Was it just kind 20:00of stepping right back into the same life?

Franci Files Jarrard: It's just stepping --

Lyse Moore: Similar, yeah.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- right back into the family. When I came, I would came back 9 months later than she did. I stayed on for a little while longer, but when I came back she took me straight to Anderson Fair. I've got to introduce you to my new friends, you're gonna love 'em, and she was right, and, uh, next thing I knew that's where we were every minute. We, I, I was asleep, at work, or at Anderson Fair. There was no other reality, and, uh --

Lyse Moore: We were around the same people.

Franci Files Jarrard: Mm hmm.

Lyse Moore: We were doing similar things.

Franci Files Jarrard: Mm hmm.

Lyse Moore: That we had before.

Norie Guthrie: What was Anderson Fair like in those early years?

Franci Files Jarrard: Oh, wow.

Lyse Moore: They were different for us 'cause we had started off at different times.

Franci Files Jarrard: Mm hmm.

Lyse Moore: When I first . . .

Franci Files Jarrard: It was a scene. It was a scene. There were, whether, whether it was the era when she came in or the era that I remember more than she, it was, there was always somebody there. It was, it was, it was closed a 21:00lot, but there was always someone there. It was like a little community center, and the, there was just always somebody there. It, you had to be part of the clique to get through the locked door out front, but it was a community center and it was a scene.

Lyse Moore: When I was there, did the spaghetti lunches, there was Pat Stout, Sandy Mathis, Robbie Franklin, Marvin Anderson, he was on his way out, and they took me in as little I was there off and on, but whenever I was back, I always did as much as I could for the club, whether it was money or sweeping the patio or doing pots of spaghetti. You know, I did what I could when I was there. They had a little music at lunchtime, and like we said before with Sand Mountain and the Old Quarter musicians were always looking for a venue to play. There's a place to play at lunch at least they'd get free spaghetti and who knows what 22:00else they would get in the little tip jar that was out front. Uh, by Franci's time, when she was there, it was becoming more of a music venue. I think more musicians came in, I think because Franci --

Franci Files Jarrard: Well, we brought the music in at night too.

Lyse Moore: Because you knew them.

Franci Files Jarrard: And we did night --

Lyse Moore: Yes, and you did nighttime.

Franci Files Jarrard: Yeah, when Walter and I came, became the active managers or whatever, we opened up the music room. We knocked out the wall to the space next door --

Norie Guthrie: Mm hmm.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- and totally doubled the size of Anderson Fair, and made it a music venue with a stage, nighttime music six, six nights a week, and, uh, it was, it was a happening, and everybody we knew lived within about 10 or 12 blocks of that place. We all just, we'd get up out of our beds and go right over to the Fair and see what was happenin', 'cause there was always somethin' going 23:00on and there was lunch, lunchtime music, nighttime music, and in between we just hung out or whatever. It was just, it was a community center. I keep saying that. It was that.

Lyse Moore: Cooking spaghetti early in the morning and folks would come in. They would look at the paper, do the crosswords --

Franci Files Jarrard: It was a coffee klatch.

Lyse Moore: -- look at the want-ads for jobs. Everyone always needed a job.

Franci Files Jarrard: Morning coffe klatch, very popular.

Lyse Moore: Check in with each other and --

Franci Files Jarrard: While I was chopping on-, onions and bell peppers, Roger was always working the crossword puzzle, Eric Taylor was comparing song notes with other writers and there was a definite coffee klatch in the morning while the spaghetti was being cooked and that was very popular. They would all dissipate the, all the various songwriters and people hangin' out when the place opened at 11:00, and they would go away and we'd serve lunch for 3 hours.

Norie Guthrie: So that morning time, do you think that that kind of helped, how 24:00do I put this? There was so much talent that came out in a short period of time from Houston, a 20-year span, just a lot of people coming out, a lot of talent. Do you think that those, those morning coffee times where people were comparing songs with each other was kind of a fruitful and challenging time for them to --

Franci Files Jarrard: I think it was.

Lyse Moore: Definitely.

Norie Guthrie: -- work on their craft?

Franci Files Jarrard: I think it was. I think that they were encouraging each other. There was, there was Lucinda, there was Eric, there was Lyle, my husband, Stephen Jarrard, all of these people, Don Sanders, would kinda meet, and I was, I was kinda in the background doing other stuff. I was not actually one of them at that point, but no, I think they, they, I think they exchanged a lot of creativity and pumped each other on to --

Lyse Moore: And they helped each --

Franci Files Jarrard: -- with their art.

Lyse Moore: -- out on their way ups. You know, they were competit-, they were friends, they were competitive, but they all helped each other on the way up, 25:00and I think that's what it takes. I saw this in Nashville after my many years in Nashville and around musicians starting off there and forming a group and people and helping each other on the way up.

Franci Files Jarrard: Motivating each other to pursue art, to pursue music.

Lyse Moore: This was music is, art too, 'cause there were artists there also.

Franci Files Jarrard: Well, I'm thinking of music as an art.

Lyse Moore: Yes.

Franci Files Jarrard: Music is an art, anyway.

Norie Guthrie: Um, so I guess, let's see, um, you want to take, kinda take turns talking about some of your individual experiences at the Fair, different stories, that kind of thing, things that pop, that pop out at you about your time there?

Lyse Moore: After Franci came, I was back and forth between Anderson Fair and Texas A&M. I went back for a master's in forestry. Before I finished that up I 26:00had an epiphany one weekend in Houston and had read the first work on sign language with chimpanzees, and I said this is what I'm going to do with my life. So I went out, got the grants, bought the chimp, help of our family once again, our family helping us out, and started off with that. Folks around Anderson Fair, the music group here was very receptive to what I was doing on communication with this baby chimpanzee and raising it as a human. I was told to not read what anyone else was doing, raise this chimpanzee as a human child and teach it sign language, and one of our good friends from Anderson Fair knew signs. She'd grown up with deaf parents, Kimo. She helped me, everyone helped hold this baby chimp. She had, uh, I remember lunchtime Bill and Lucille playing lunches with their baby daughter in the backroom in the playpen napping along 27:00with my baby chimp, Lily. So the music community really embraced what I was doing. I was not a musician or an artist per say in town, but my life was an art form and I was always accepted, I feel like, because of this.

Franci Files Jarrard: Now, she did drive all those, I think she caused one of the health inspectors to retire. After he, every time he came to Anderson Fair, we were doing something wrong, always we were doing something wrong, and one time he comes in, he tried to like us, everybody tried to like us because we obviously were well intentioned young hippies.

Lyse Moore: We were harmless. We were harmless, you know --

Franci Files Jarrard: These wonderful little hippies --

Lyse Moore: -- we weren't hard-, too hardcore.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- with this little restaurant, but we just weren't quite doing it proper, and he walks into the restaurant and there she is in the kitchen with this chimpanzee, and he threw his hands up in the air. He just, I don't know what to do with you guys. Just don't know what to do. I, I honestly 28:00think the man went back to the office and said he needed another assignment, another job, anything else, and yeah, anyway, and that was, that's an Anderson Fair story.

Lyse Moore: We got a warning. We weren't closed.

Franci Files Jarrard: No, they, he never --

Lyse Moore: We got a warning.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- closed us down. They actually did like us.

Lyse Moore: And we had to clean up 908 Welch. A lot of the folks that worked at Anderson Fair had rented the house behind Anderson Fair, 908, you know, big crew had gone through there of different people that lived there, so we could go back and forth at night. Sometimes we'd get lazy. We had speakers in the house, so you could --

Franci Files Jarrard: We didn't even have to go to the restaurant.

Lyse Moore: -- listen to the music. You could just hang it in the house, and they'd say okay, it's break time. They would run back over so we could be in the kitchen and serve the customers.

Franci Files Jarrard: We really did that, yeah.

Lyse Moore: Yeah.

Norie Guthrie: Who all lived back there at Welch?

Lyse Moore: A couple of different ****.

Franci Files Jarrard: Um, I was the first group with myself and Patty Miller and 29:00Tony Gagman, and all the appropriate guys that go along with having three girls in a house, and later we moved on and the guys moved in, and I think that was Walter Spinks, Roger Ruffcorn, and Stephen Jarrard. Later I took Roger away, and I think she moved in. A bunch of different people --

Lyse Moore: I was in the back room.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- lived, Mitch Green was our first roommate but he, he fled after Dan Earhart drove him crazy learning how to tune the piano. Then Earhart learned how to tune the pianos living at 908 Welch, and, uh, it was, it was an experience in itself.

Lyse Moore: And a lot that played, especially on the weekends at Anderson Fair, they'd have the whole weekend, they'd stay with us over at 908.

Franci Files Jarrard: Sometimes.

Lyse Moore: The brave.

Norie Guthrie: So, while you were at Anderson Fair, can you talk about some of the, um, performers that you interacted with?

30:00

Franci Files Jarrard: Oh wow, that's a big question. There were a lot of those people, yeah, and a lot of 'em I still know. A lot of 'em are very special.

Lyse Moore: Bill Staines, talk about Bill Staines.

Franci Files Jarrard: Let's talk about Bill Staines. Bill Staines goes back before Anderson Fair. I met Bill Staines in 1969. Right after I graduated from UT, I went to school up in Boston, and I met Bill Staines. He and I actually hit it off and talked all night long. We had lots to talk about, and I told him, he wanted to go out west. He wanted to go to Texas. He had this longing, and I said, oh, well, you need to call Mrs. Carrick in Houston, which he did, and he played there that spring, and he has played in Texas every year since then. We are still friends to this day, and we, of course, took him over. He, he'd play Sand Mountain, the Old Quarter, and we led him over to Anderson Fair, and he still plays Anderson Fair, and he was Kerr-, Foville, Coville, Kerrville 31:00Festival yodeling champion, uh, in mid-70s sometime and he --

Lyse Moore: He, Walter Spinks and Bill Cade took off on a trip out west without much money. Stopped in Kerrville, somehow he won the yodeling contest --

Franci Files Jarrard: Not somehow, he was great.

Lyse Moore: He was great.

Franci Files Jarrard: He's awesome.

Lyse Moore: Pressed on [?].

Franci Files Jarrard: Uh, yeah, no, he didn't accidentally win it. Bill yo-, Bill Staines can yodel. He's really good, and, uh, he's still a friend. We still know Bill. Let's think of others. There's Vince.

Lyse Moore: He comes to visit us every year where we live too and tells us stories, he brings stuff --

Franci Files Jarrard: We still see him.

Lyse Moore: -- down for us to listen to. I mean, Bill Staines is a true folk musician from the northeast that still travels in his car millions of miles.

Franci Files Jarrard: Amazing, and let's talk about Vince. Vince also goes back to Sand Mountain, um, then gosh, Vince, Anderson Fair, one time Vince wrote a 32:00song. What was --

Lyse Moore: "The Christmas Song."

Franci Files Jarrard: The Christmas song, the night before Christmas, he utilized everybody at Anderson Fair at that point in time in the song called "The Night Before Christmas at Anderson Fair" or something like that. It was amazing, and, uh, Vince is an amazing writer, an amazing person, and a friend of ours.

Lyse Moore: And when he had his accident we closed ranks. We're, we may not see each other for a long time, this group of people that goes back to '69 and '70, we close ranks, and we're there for each other, even though we're not always in our everyday lives.

Franci Files Jarrard: I saw Vince a lot right after his accident, 'cause that happened in Austin and I had moved to Austin at that time, um, and that's a difficult topic and I feel you've probably covered that in Vince's interview. So let's move onto a different musician.

Lyse Moore: Eric Taylor.

Franci Files Jarrard: Eric Taylor, yeah, oh wow. Eric Taylor, he was every 33:00morning at the, he practically lived at Coffee Circle there at Anderson Fair for many years for the writers, all the writers to come in and compare notes and drink coffee and, uh, Eric Taylor. He always called me auntie.

Lyse Moore: Always the cowgirl.

Franci Files Jarrard: She's the cowgirl. My husband, Stephen was always biscuit. Eric had little fond little names for everybody and, uh, and Eric kinda, I think, when I think of Eric it's hard not to think of Nanci Griffith and Lyle Lovett. There were quite a --

Lyse Moore: He mentored them.

Franci Files Jarrard: They, he mentored them.

Lyse Moore: He married Nanci.

Franci Files Jarrard: They were quite a group together, and let's move on. How 'bout Rock Romano? Oh my goodness, Rock Romano is a special friend, and the times I, well, we both actually lived in a houses. We were neighbors, we were friends, he taught me, he mentored me in bass, rock and roll bass, he, he, what a, what a little magician. What a whirlwind of --

34:00

Lyse Moore: Amazing spirit.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- creativity. I've had the pleasure of working in his studio, Red Shack Studios here. He's a, he's still a friend. He's still a wonderment, he's still a little magician. Um, Bill Cade and Lucille Cade, they were Bill and Lucille when I first knew them. When they split up it shattered my world. I thought they were forever and poof my, my image of forever went away, and, uh, it's okay, I met, and I still love 'em both.

Lyse Moore: All the picking parties they had all the people at their houses they would have in the evenings.

Franci Files Jarrard: Bill Haynes, Aileen and Elkin came out of Nashville and brought their spirit to Texas. They were beautiful, beautiful harmonies.

Lyse Moore: They had played in Leonard Cohen's band. Bubba was the next one up after --

Franci Files Jarrard: They were a little older.

Lyse Moore: -- Leonard to be the star, and he dropped out and they gave it to Charlie Daniels that played with them, and he and Aileen dropped out and moved 35:00to Krum, Texas and spent a lot of time with us down at Anderson Fair, and I spent a lot of time with them with the chimps 'cause they were close to Oklahoma --

Franci Files Jarrard: They were very special.

Lyse Moore: -- and I would come down with baby chimps, so they could feed 'em and I could take a break and visit 'em on weekends.

Franci Files Jarrard: Rick Dinsmore, Rick Dinsmore I met in 1974 maybe. I think I met he and Dan Earhart maybe about the same time.

Lyse Moore: He was workin' for Channel 2 with Bruce Bryant filming things, but he was a musician from LA and famous in his own right from there and he loved his time here, and I used to see him a lot --

Franci Files Jarrard: We still see him. We still see him.

Lyse Moore: -- in Nashville when I lived there and he would come visit and pitch some songs. He lives close to us now. So he's still around there.

Franci Files Jarrard: The Cypress Swamp Stompers, Malcolm and Becky Smith, Pat and, uh, how can I forget his name?

36:00

Lyse Moore: Don Russell.

Franci Files Jarrard: No, no, just like the Swamp Stompers, Zeke, Zeke --

Lyse Moore: He did not like chimpanzees.

Franci Files Jarrard: No, he didn't. He was attacked by monkeys in Vietnam and he had a very adverse reaction to Lily.

Lyse Moore: Franci was spendin' some time with him and I go over with Lily, and he turns white. I've never had anyone have that reaction to Lily, you know, that's a baby and hanging and looking at him and hooting and signing something, but he had been attacked by a monkey. He had, had to be quiet, was attacked, and was hurt very seriously, but couldn't take Lily over to Zeke's house. I want to go back to Rock Romano.

Franci Files Jarrard: Kirk and Jim, Doug Lacy, well, it's hard to think of all the people that we heard in those years going through, John Grimaudo, oh my goodness, what a blues picker singer. Have we named a few?

Norie Guthrie: You have named a few.

Franci Files Jarrard: That doesn't even, that just, that's just --

Lyse Moore: I want to tell a story with Rock.

37:00

Franci Files Jarrard: Okay.

Lyse Moore: We shared a house, so he wanted to get a house but he needed a roommate. So he talked to me. I was at Anderson Fair and I was ready to leave 908 at that point. I wasn't sure what I was going to do. Just gotten a job at the zoo training an elephant for awhile. So, he was a jazz musician. He'd be up all night, I think he had Smokin' Fitz then and --

Franci Files Jarrard: Smokin' Fitz was a great jazz group.

Lyse Moore: -- we'd meet up about the time he was coming in, I was about to go off to my job at the zoo and I had this, this uniform with the epaulettes and the high black boots, and we'd walk down Fairview to Harry's Restaurant for breakfast, and he had on his glasses, sort of hunched over and dark glasses and we were always quite an odd couple walking in, in the morning, but we were still good friends.

Norie Guthrie: Um, you had mentioned Reb Smith earlier.

Franci Files Jarrard: Mm hmm.

Lyse Moore: Yes.

Norie Guthrie: I don't know too much about him.

Franci Files Jarrard: Reb, Reb was --

38:00

Lyse Moore: We met at Sand Mountain.

Franci Files Jarrard: Met at Sand Mountain. He was only 15 years old when I met him. He had come up from the Valley and he was, he was part Chinese and part Mexican, and, uh, he came, he wanted to learn how to play music, and he did, and he was a good picker, singer, and songwriter, and it's kind of hard to talk too much about Reb because he apparently became disillusioned and did himself in, in his 30s, and it's kind of a sad, very sad thing.

Lyse Moore: Mm.

Franci Files Jarrard: But he was very much part of our lives in the 70s, and he always rode a bicycle. As far as I know, he never --

Lyse Moore: Always had that bicycle.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- never drove a car in his life that I know of. Probably never left the Montrose, um, his entire life was spent in that world that he could get around on his bicycle.

Lyse Moore: And play music and support himself and I assume.

Franci Files Jarrard: He played music.

Lyse Moore: It was at a point when the jobs weren't there.

Norie Guthrie: Did you ever interact with David Rodriguez when he was --

39:00

Franci Files Jarrard: Absolutely.

Lyse Moore: Oh yeah, yeah.

Franci Files Jarrard: Oh absolutely, and admire, admired him greatly and still do, and, uh, of course he's passed on now as well, but no, terrific writer, terrific, absolutely.

Lyse Moore: Linda Lowe. I was in --

Franci Files Jarrard: Linda Lowe.

Lyse Moore: -- Little Rock visiting Bill Haymes at some point, and I remember a big party at his house. The Clintons were there, and I looked across the room and it was sort of one of those parties, and, and I saw this real interesting woman that sort of kept getting my attention, fascinated me, so I started to talk to her at some point later in the evening, and it was Linda Lowe, and I invited her down to play at Anderson Fair.

Franci Files Jarrard: And she never left --

Lyse Moore: And she --

Franci Files Jarrard: -- as far as I know.

Lyse Moore: She's still here.

Franci Files Jarrard: Actually, she, yeah, she is still here. She does Writers in the Round. She teaches music. She's a formidable person here in Houston. Um, she and Don Sanders and I did shows for the Parks Department for 3 years. Tim 40:00Leatherwood got us that job. He was, his time working in the Parks Department and got jobs for lots of people, and our job was to go around to the various parks and put on shows for the children. It was actually a lot of fun, and my partners were Don Sanders and Linda Lowe. That was great fun. Yeah, Don Sanders, we've mentioned him before. How can you not mention Don Sanders? Yeah.

Lyse Moore: She got a house in the Heights for awhile. I would spend a lot of time there staying with her and other folks, Malcolm Smith would come and play his violin for us and Townes would drop by. Tim Leatherwood and I got that house at some point after she had left the house. Townes would still come and stay. He would come and sober up to come see his mom that lived in River Oaks at the time. So he'd come, stay, sort of sober up. I would drive him around, 'cause he would go and counsel old friends on how they should be.

41:00

Norie Guthrie: What was his advice?

Lyse Moore: Well, you'll see Richard takin' his finger and lookin' like this sometime. Townes would do that same thing, tell folks how they ought to be and how to act and be good and all those things. So I'd drive him --

Franci Files Jarrard: I wouldn't take my advice.

Lyse Moore: -- place to place and I got to driving him to gigs at night 'cause I didn't drink then or anything. Stay up and drive him around and get him back home without him being kidnapped or --

Norie Guthrie: Were you able to keep him out of trouble?

Lyse Moore: I never tried that, but I had the ride home and it was his choice, 'cause I mean, it was amazing the women that would fall in love with him and wanted to take him home, and he was trying to be somewhat good. So, I'd be the ride back for him and his excuse to ride back.

Norie Guthrie: Um, Franci, you've kind of mentioned playing music. Um, how, when 42:00did you begin and how has that progressed throughout your life?

Franci Files Jarrard: You know, I'd managed the restaurant for about 3 years, and that was just a completely fulltime job --

Norie Guthrie: Mm hmm.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- and all I, what I did was cook spaghetti, clean bathrooms, sweep floors, open Shiner beers and, uh, I guess when I retired from that after about 3 years what I wanted to do was be a musician. I'm looking and I'm going, I think I'm talented, I can do that, and I know how to play guitar. I, I'd actually even played a gig or two, but I was not by any chance the songwriter or the people, the performer that any of these others were, but I decided, made up my mind I wanted to be a musician too, and, uh, and actually I proceeded to do that. that's what I did when I, after I retired from cooking spaghetti and working in the kitchen at Anderson Fair, I attended what I called Anderson Fair Music School, and I began playing there, and, uh, we haven't 43:00mentioned yet my husband, Stephen Jarrard, um, also was a songwriter there in the 70s, and he, he is the one that told me I needed to get a bass. He actually courted me from the very beginning. He invited me to start playing with him, which is, that's the way into my heart, you know, ask me to come play music with you, 'cause I'm just, just love music, and so he asked me to start playing with him, and I did, and he said you need to get bass, we don't need two guitar players, so I got a bass, and he was my partner off and on, actually, he still is now. We've been married, we've been together for 40 years now, and, uh, we still play together, but we're not, we're not the duet. Actually, we've changed places. Now he plays the bass and I, I play keyboards and other things, but I just, I don't know, I've been a musician ever since then. I love it.

44:00

Lyse Moore: I've known Stephen a very long time. He was always in love with Franci, even though she was with someone else. I can't tell you the women that wanted to help him out and be with him, but he was so in love with Franci. It was, he just waited. He just outwaited everyone.

Franci Files Jarrard: He didn't wait lonely. He had lots of girls to help him wait for me to be available, and, uh, eventually I was available I guess, and he's still around. He's not going anywhere, and, uh, I love him. He's my husband, and he's my partner, and we not only play music together, but we love boats, and that's a whole 'nother topic.

Norie Guthrie: Okay, we can -- so, after 1976, your lives, um, those still connected went in different directions. Um, could you both take turns talking about where your lives took, um, took you over the following years?

45:00

Franci Files Jarrard: You ended up in Oklahoma.

Lyse Moore: I ran out of grants at A&M working on my doctorate with the chimp. I placed her in New Mexico for awhile. I was devastated. Came back to Anderson Fair, of course. Tried to regroup. I could have sold the chimp, finished the doctorate, or continued with my research which was a lifelong project with her, and I was in the middle of it. Came back to the restaurant, took a break, stayed with my friends, brought, got money training the elephant, and decided to go back with the chimp wherever it led. Picked up the chimp, spent the summer out west. Took notes on my grandfather's World War I typewriter I remember when we were out camping, and right when I was down to okay, I don't have much money 46:00left, I need to make the run to Oregon. I was gonna be a waitress up there, do my research during the day, make money as a waitress at night. I could always do that.

Franci Files Jarrard: You?

Lyse Moore: But, I got, well, I got the job at the University of Oklahoma where they did the sign language research, it was the dream job running it. My chimp could be around other chimps and become a chimpanzee, because I felt that was real necessary at the time. She was not a human child. All this research was new and it wasn't going the way anyone thought it would. So, I ended up up there. Every 6 weeks I would take a long 4-day weekend and come back to Anderson Fair. The longer I was there, the more chimpanzee I taught, 'cause all these home-raised chimpanzees were coming in that did not know chimpanzees' language. I was trying to get 'em into groups, so I would have 'em at my house. So, I started to speak chimpanzee to teach them more than I was speaking English. My 47:00only outside contact was Anderson Fair and my friends there for the next few years.

Franci Files Jarrard: While meanwhile at Anderson Fair I guess I was at that point, uh, pursuing my music, and I played with, with Stephen for awhile, but at this point we had begun living together as well, and it just, it became too much, and so we kept the living together part and started, he went back to playing with Bill Cade, his old partner, and I started playing bass with those people, and, uh, and had some good times doing that. I played a lot with Steve Baker who still is a good friend of mine. He and I played some gigs together during that period. Um, I played with a group called Terry and the Telephones. That, that's a really memorable time for me. It was only, once again, it was only 4 months in my life, but it was so very special. I met these guys, Terry Ross and John Leaf I met through Rock Romano, and they had been, he had met them 48:00out in the suburbs. They were living in an apartment complex somewhere in the western desert as we called it in West Houston, and Rock brought 'em into the Anderson Fair. I heard 'em, and said oh man, you guys are hot. You need a lady bass player. You need some harmonies. It'd be really good. Lisa had begun singing with them, Ms. Lisa Williams, and, uh, we became a group. They thought about my offer and they said sure, and, uh, for 4 months we pumped out the tunes. It was just, it was a creative, one of those really, really creative periods.

Lyse Moore: Amazing energy with the group.

Franci Files Jarrard: Amazing energy.

Lyse Moore: A following.

Franci Files Jarrard: Three or four new songs every week, and we just kept it going, played quite a few gigs, not too many, 'cause like I said it was 4 months and it was over, but, uh, it was incredible energy and there is a recording of it that says that this really did happen and it really was good. Now, these guys 49:00had failed to tell us that they had a wife and a girlfriend in that apartment complex out in west Houston, and when those women showed up to Anderson Fair one night, that was kind of the end of Terry and the Telephones, and --

Lyse Moore: I was amazed at the looks back and forth were incredible. We were just all lookin' back and forth and oh, whoa.

Franci Files Jarrard: It was a moment in time, and, uh, and it was a gr-, a wonderful era for me. I absolutely learned so much and really admired both of those guys tremendously, and, uh, out of that I met Richard Dobson. I had just recently, once again, Rock Romano comes up. He was producing Richard's LP, The Big Taste, and Rock invited Lisa and I to go over and sing harmonies on a song, which we did, which kind of, we played, T and the Telephones played a gig down in Galveston. Lisa and I failed to book a place to stay. We didn't know where we were sleeping. We were young, and we walked the beach all night long, and at dawn we went to Richard Dobson's house, oh we know Richard, we sang on his album, of course. So we go to Richard's house and knock on the door. He gave us a place to stay and later that afternoon he took us to his studio and he was so 50:00proud, he had a studio in downtown Galveston, and he invited me to be his bass player, and I have to say that I still play with Richard Dobson to this day. Now, he's never lived in Texas much since then. He went to Nashville shortly after that and Switzerland now, but when he comes to Texas, I am part of Richard's Texas band. I'm very proud of that, and that started 1978. So that's, brings us back to 1978. That's what we were doing.

Lyse Moore: Now my part, we go back, so I'm at the chimp farm, things are bright, cheery. I had received really good grants for a couple baby twin chimps 51:00I had raised and I was gonna do a communication with them and acquisition of language between them and my older chimp, Lily, that I still had.

Franci Files Jarrard: They were so cute.

Lyse Moore: And, and they were finally healthy and I came down one Christmas here with them. They were just starting to sign. They could sign food and drink. It was their first signs, and there were a lot of pictures around Anderson Fair of people holding them, 'cause baby chimps had to be held all the time, and there was this wonderful picture of them and everyone had this wonderful New Years, and I went back and there was a horrible fire. The twins was killed, all my research burned. It was really devastating. So, uh, I was in shock. I come back here, Tim Leatherwood takes me back in at the house we had shared in the 52:00Heights. Townes came down for a week or two and just drove me around. I mean, I couldn't hardly talk. He said Lyse, you can't talk to a half-drunk blond crazy man, who can you talk to, and in the evenings Tim would take me to Anderson Fair, and I would just sit in the kitchen and listen to music. It has always gone back to the music, where you gain your strength and something inside from, and so I slowly began to heal, and about that time I started, Richard Dobson was coming more to the Fair and we started to visit more, and we had a lot in common, travel, adventure, and people we knew and literature and art, all those things, and it, at some point my partner was killed in Oklahoma, and he asked me to move to Nashville with him, which I did. I didn't know anyone, and I got there and there were Guy, Susanna and Lomax, Hugh Moffatt, other people I'd 53:00known from here. It was a great place to take off. I ended up there 25 years. I was there 7 ½ with Richard. People we knew from Houston were starting to venture out more from Houston and play other places, you know, as their careers started to grow. Nashville was sort of intimidating because the younger group hadn't been there, you know, Guy and Townes had been there, but before that, then Nanci had been there. She came to visit us. People started to come visit us. Nanci came and visit, we were moving Kathy Mattea that weekend, 'cause we had the truck, and introduced Nanci to Kathy. So that worked out for them. Lucinda came and visited, but she went back to LA. Others came and visited and we encouraged them to, just to check out the music scene and the business, and Richard was very good at explaining sort of how the Nashville business worked, 54:00and it was nice that folks could come visit and sort of see and test it out and stay with us, and we were back here in Houston every 3 months anyway for his gigs, and so we were never very far away.

Franci Files Jarrard: Back to that road trip thing.

Norie Guthrie: Mm hmm.

Franci Files Jarrard: That, you know, these days it seems to be such a major thing to go on a trip, you know, or jump in the car and drive somewhere. In those days, hey, let's go to Nashville tomorrow. Okay, you know, $10.00 fill up the car and --

Lyse Moore: Stay with friends along the way.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- 12 hours later you're there. It's, I don't know it's, traveling was easier and cheaper, it just was. We didn't fly, we drove.

Lyse Moore: When we drive here, we stayed with Stephen and Franci. They were, you know, his main band, up here in Austin, some we'd stay with Townes. Down here we'd be with Roger Ruffcorn or Tim often, go down to the beach with Rex. For awhile Rex was here, then he was down in Galveston. Then we'd stay there.

Franci Files Jarrard: Wherever she lived I always came to visit. I visited 55:00Nashville, I visited, actually, I didn't visit Nashville. I visited Lyse's farm, and I visited, uh, Oklahoma numbers of times.

Lyse Moore: And even after Richard and I broke up we had the same friends, so we stayed the same places, so it just all has kept on working and he and his wife that I love very much stay with us when they come to Texas --

Franci Files Jarrard: We're --

Lyse Moore: -- in our neighborhood, yeah.

Franci Files Jarrard: Actually, our neighborhood is Richard's, uh, Texas address since his parents have passed on. We are, we are his Texas home.

Norie Guthrie: Um, now Franci, when you, um, and Stephen moved on to Austin, you continued to play music.

Franci Files Jarrard: Always.

Norie Guthrie: Can you talk about that time, and what --

Franci Files Jarrard: Sure.

Norie Guthrie: -- you've done since then?

Franci Files Jarrard: Um, at first we were just a duet, kind of like we had been, and that evolved into a country western band which took us to beer joints 56:00and dance halls, and our luck changed when we met a violin player, Javier Chaparro, and Javier turned our life around because he's, he's a concert violinist and he kinda took us under his wing. He suggested to Stephen that he learn to play guitarrón which is a big Mexican bass, which Stephen proceeded to do and he played with Javier for over 30 years as his bass player. I took up accordion about that time, and I actually ended up being in strolling trio with Stephen and Javier, and I played the accordion. I played classical piano as a kid, so I knew how to read music, and all of this came into play at that point. I became a strolling accordion player for quite awhile. Did some very, and I would have never have known that I was going this place, but I did. We played weddings, we played business conventions and restaurants. We played a Sunday brunch. We had a Sunday brunch career. We would play every Sunday 11:00 to 2:00 57:00and from that we would get all these other gigs, and this all started with this relationship with this violin player, and, uh, it really took us down a different trail, and we still, he's still one of our very closest, dearest friends, and, uh --

Lyse Moore: And he plays on Richard's albums too.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- and we still play music. Um, I'm still play-, after my accordion career kind of ended, about 2000 I think things kind of switched and the Sunday brunch gigs dissipated and I took up keyboard at that point which is, goes back to my piano as a child, and I'm still playing the keyboards, and it's, it's very fun, and I sing harmonies. I'm still in a couple of groups, and I'm, we don't play very much anymore, but when we do we have a good time.

Lyse Moore: She is in a Hawaiian and a reggae band.

Franci Files Jarrard: I'm kinda tropical now. It goes along with my loving boats and water and tropical islands, and I wish that they didn't have any hurricanes this year because it's making me very nervous, but --

Lyse Moore: And she plays accordion with Richard. He likes her accordion.

58:00

Franci Files Jarrard: I do.

Lyse Moore: He likes the sound, so she's still playing with Richard.

Franci Files Jarrard: I still play accordion with Richard when he comes to town. So I never quit playin' music. I hope I never quit playin' music. It's a whole lot of fun, it's, uh, it's very special.

Norie Guthrie: So Lyse, before you moved back here, um and after your relationship with Richard ended you were in Nashville, what were, what were you doing at that time?

Lyse Moore: I've always worked with animals. People here always call me the cowgirl. I've had horses. So, I decided to be a professional cowgirl. I kept waiting for something to take back off with the chimps. It didn't happen. The whole time I was with Richard, I waited year after year. I never took up anything I couldn't leave, and then I realized this wasn't happening. So, I became a professional cowgirl. I went around to different ranches. I learned the 59:00event. I did working and riding cow horse. They thought I was cute 'cause I traveled in my van and had my horse trailer, and I just stayed there, and I'd always take wives presents and would always be very nice. I learned the event, and I figured that the guys like me 'cause they'd yell at me a lot on how to do it, but I became a Highpoint world champion. I won the Dixie Nationals four times. I come back here and visit. Her son then was playing soccer and he was little, so I'd come. I, I'd have my shiny belt buckles and we'd exchange, exchange injuries and he'd show me his trophies. I'd show him my belt buckles, and --

Franci Files Jarrard: She also went through a period where she did movies. She trained animals for movies. She had a connection with a guy, it started in California, that did, would hire people that would actually, you know, she would be the person that would get the flamingos to run across the stage at the right moment, and she did all kinds of different animals, and she did the same thing in Nashville --

Lyse Moore: It goes back --

60:00

Franci Files Jarrard: -- for awhile.

Lyse Moore: -- to the chimps, when the chimps went down I had my chimp, Lily. I had to find another place for her. I got the place in Nashville at the big farm and was trying to get her, and I arranged to try to get another chimp in, 'cause chimps shouldn't be alone, and have a place there, almost got a place in Florida with Bob Ingersoll with the chimp Nim that's the famous chimp, and we were going, we were gonna buy a chicken farm with an automatic loan to pay for our research with the chimps and then invite universities in, and we knew this would take off, but at that point, Nim went someplace else. So I took the chimp to LA, found this guy, animal trainer. He said I'll keep your chimp if I can have the first baby. Sure. So I was out there every 4 to 5 weeks and would spend 2 weeks with Lily, and she got pregnant and had an unfortunate early death. He owed me a 61:00chimp. So at some point I brought another chimp back to Nashville, and I was revving back up and things didn't go well with him, but I, I had another little chimp in Nashville for awhile. It's the old video at Jack Clements' studios. Jack Clements was one of her main babysitters. So, the chimps kept goin' but it was winding down. Animal trainers and scientists never got along and I was trying to bridge the gap somewhat, but animal trainers did not have to be so harsh with their animals. Chimps understood language. You did the sign language with them or something else, they understand what you're saying. You don't have to be so harsh, but I really didn't like the animal training there, but I did it to be around my chimp, and then I just started to do music videos in Nashville with farm animals, and I did one pig video 'cause I'd been on Pee Wee's Big Top Circus and I'd seen someone work with the pig, so I said okay, I can do this, 62:00and then I, someone called me and said oh, I heard you were the best pig trainer in Nashville, so I called LA, find out how to do something, and do it. So then I started to raise pigs for movies.

Norie Guthrie: You keep surprising me. You guys both keep surprising me.

Franci Files Jarrard: Her stories are never ****.

Lyse Moore: So I would come through to Anderson Fair. I'd visit Franci. The Party Pig Gig Tour, her, her little son was, you know, and we had his birthday and I had a baby pig, but I came down here and someone else had a birthday party for their daughter, Deborah Baugher and Maya at Anderson Fair and it was a Party Pig gig. So you never knew what baby animal I was gonna bring with me, 'cause they all had to be bottle fed and we were always on the road. So I'd just bring 'em with me and bottle feed and do what I need to do with the little baby animals I always had.

Franci Files Jarrard: That's Lyse.

Norie Guthrie: Um, let's see. So you now live near each other outside of Austin.

63:00

Franci Files Jarrard: We do.

Norie Guthrie: And what is your life like now?

Franci Files Jarrard: We like to play dominoes. What is our life like now? We, we cook a lot.

Lyse Moore: Before I went to --

Franci Files Jarrard: We're retired.

Lyse Moore: -- Nashville, Franci and Stephen wanted a place of their own and I wanted a little piece of Texas before I left, so we bought property together.

Franci Files Jarrard: Yeah, in 1983 we bought property together in this neighborhood where we now live, and since that time our friends have bought in the neighborhood too, and it's becoming like a little community. It's really very, very nice. I would recommend it for anybody and their, what, what, what do you want to do with your later years? You want to live close to your friends.

Lyse Moore: Good music, good food.

Franci Files Jarrard: Pickin' parties, good food, take turns, dinner at --

Lyse Moore: Close, yeah.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- your house tonight. Okay. It's good.

64:00

Norie Guthrie: So, kinda looking back on the Houston folk scene, why do you think it produced so much talent?

Franci Files Jarrard: That I don't know, but I do know that it all, I don't know, I think it all helped, they were very creative times. We were very young.

Lyse Moore: It was the times.

Franci Files Jarrard: It was the times, we --

Lyse Moore: Look at the times in '69 and '70.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- We were young. We were young. It was an era of, antiestablishment is not the word, but it was the hippy era. I mean, we were --

Lyse Moore: We left the comfortable things --

Franci Files Jarrard: We didn't, we didn't do --

Lyse Moore: -- in life that people did.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- what they ex-, none of us were doing what our parents thought we were going to do. I don't know what they thought we were going to do, but it wasn't what we ended up doing and then --

Lyse Moore: We became each other's family.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- it was a hotbed of creativity, and there were, there, the musicians that went on to become famous. I mean, think about that. Lucinda, Lyle, Nanci, they were just all coming right out of this little hotbed of 65:00creativity that just fed off each other.

Lyse Moore: But even if they didn't become famous, I saw in Nashville it didn't often have anything to do with that. Sometimes it's the luck of the draw. I saw friends equally talented, but we all encouraged each other. We lived in a, this bubble of creativity --

Franci Files Jarrard: You followed your heart.

Lyse Moore: -- from, from the clubs with the people we hung out, what we did. It was all focused on what we were doing and it was new and we, we pushed each other.

Norie Guthrie: So --

Franci Files Jarrard: I don't know what made it so, so magic, but it certainly was, and, uh --

Norie Guthrie: -- why do you think that fruitful time eventually came to an end?

Franci Files Jarrard: I don't know that it really came to an end. I don't even know that we actually grew up. Maybe we did, but, uh, I guess the end for everybody, you know, you can ask a million different people what happened in 66:00that year, whatever, everybody's gonna have a different answer because everybody had their own little experience in the little web of it all.

Lyse Moore: And life is growth. It, it, life is not stagnant. You know, going like this, you know, sometimes it comes in, but when it comes in or someone needs help, this whole group, 'cause we had such a sense of family with each other. We are there for each other.

Franci Files Jarrard: And actually, in some ways --

Lyse Moore: And this helps.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- we're all still there for each other, 'cause I, I still know some, many of the people that I met in that era. They, they have become my lifelong friends. I, I've met a lot of other people along the way that I've worked with, known as parents, and blahs, and blahs. When I really get down to it, my lifelong buddies come out of people I knew in the 70s in Houston for the most part. Um, sometimes some, some from Bryan, some from Austin, but mostly Houston and Bryan in the 70s. Very formative period for ourselves, that's when 67:00we were in our 20s, so that's, that was our youth, that's what we did.

Norie Guthrie: Um, are there, we're kind of coming to the, to an end. Are there any other kind of stories or anything else that you want to, to cover that we haven't?

Franci Files Jarrard: Not that's coming out at the moment.

Norie Guthrie: Okay.

Lyse Moore: We'll think of these things on going home.

Franci Files Jarrard: -- on the way home we'll have plenty of stories.

Lyse Moore: Well, we should of--

Norie Guthrie: Well, I thank you so much for coming to Houston and coming to do the interview. This has been a lot of fun.

Franci Files Jarrard: Our pleasure, and we thank you for, for doing this for, uh, the archives and just for history. It's a wonderful thing that you're doing.