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0:11 - Introduction to Interview

0:30 - Wyman explains what living in the South was like in the 1960s-70s

1:40 - What Rice students were involved in at the time (specifically in regards to movements)

2:41 - Where Wyman has lived in Texas

3:04 - Rice students' involvement in current issues of the time compared to other universities in Texas and the Equal Rights Amendment

5:41 - The rigorous academic standards of Rice at the time and Wyman's comparison to high school

7:10 - What Wyman studied at Rice: math (originally), English, and Spanish

8:46 - Wyman's Work Today

9:28 - Changes at Rice that Wyman has noticed since graduation in 1974

10:53 - How Wyman tries to stay involved with Rice

11:30 - Wyman believes that Rice continues to offer great opportunities and engage in constant growth

12:08 - Wyman was involved in college government and the Student Association; the challenges of off-campus students and how she attempted to help them

13:27 - The colleges on campus

13:52 - The social life at Rice and activities on campus

14:40 - Baker College, Chauffeur Drivers Licenses, and the story of driving the soccer team

16:37 - Baker College and Beer Bike

17:27 - The culture of dating at Rice in the 1970s

19:27 - The most memorable thing about Rice according to Wyman

22:15 - Wyman's belief that supporting the university as an alumnus is very important

0:00

TRANSCRIPT (uncorrected) An oral history effort forming part of the 1996 Rice University Women’s Conference, hosted by the program then known as Rice University Women’s Studies WRC identifier # wrc04210 __________________________________________________

Margaret Barry: I'm Margaret Barry and I'm interviewing Kathy Kinedo Wyman who graduated in 1974. Today is February 10th, 1996. So you're telling me that you graduated from Rice in 1974.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Mm hmm.

Margaret Barry: So you came in 1970 or so?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Mm hmm, right.

Margaret Barry: What was it like then? Was ****?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Uh, well, um, you know, living in the south, the '60s kinda happened to the south in the early '70s.

Margaret Barry: Right. I was going to say.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: I think, I think we were like five years delayed from the rest of the country to a certain extent so, you know, it was definitely a time of, of, uh, the Vietnam War was still going on, a lot of political upheaval, you know, the, uh, toward the end of my time at Rice was the, uh, Nixon, it's where 1:00the Nixon impeachment trial I suppose, and you know, the, the Chicago riots I guess were in '68. So, I mean, it was very, it was very political. Politics were on people's minds quite a lot. Lot of environmental activism and, you know, a lot of, uh, you know, it was the time of the great feminist, uh, um, you know, I guess, people were just rediscovering some of the writers, uh, that a lot of people were publishing a lot about women. Women were reexamining their roles at that time.

Margaret Barry: How involved were Rice students in these activities or in these movements?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Um, I think that, uh, not very 'cause I think academics were first and foremost on everyone's minds so to the extent that you could become involved, you know, I think that as involved as any Rice student can be given the course load and the, uh, you know, the, the requirements of, you know, sort 2:00of living up to your, the obligations of, you know, your parent or your student loans. I think that kinda gave everyone an imperative to, you know, not, not **** but pick your, pick your cause, you know, like you sort of picked one or two things, you certainly couldn't do everything at that time.

Margaret Barry: Right.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: So I wouldn't, you know, on a scale of 1 to 10, I wouldn't put us at, you know, 10 being the highest, most involved campus in, in the United States at that time and in, in the activities that were going on there but I think that we weren't, you know, totally ignorant of it but it was, you know, it was a pretty typical Rice reaction if there is such a thing.

Margaret Barry: Yeah. Have you, have you always lived in Texas or in the south? Is that where you were brought up?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Right. Well, I grew up in Houston.

Margaret Barry: Oh, okay.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: So, and I went to Spring Branch School District, so I went to Rice. It's just after Rice is when I left, I went to Austin for a couple years and now I'm in Dallas.

Margaret Barry: Okay.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: So –

3:00

Margaret Barry: So you've always been basically in Texas?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Right.

Margaret Barry: So how do you think, since you probably know a little bit about other universities, how do you think Rice, or Rice's involvement in the activities of the time period like the, the hippie movement or the women's movement compared to, would have been different or compares to those movements but yet UT or Texas A&M or –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: We always heard that, um, we'd always heard that, I mean, you know, you'd always hear that the folks in Texas, I mean the UT people were always having rallies on, you know, on campus so you know, it wasn't that far that far, that, you know, if you heard about one you could come drive to Austin plus that's, you know, where the state capital is so if you were going to, to do anything in that, in that time and, you know, the Equal Right Amendment had been proposed at that time and, you know, I think that that was something that people got somewhat active in and Texas actually ratified the Amendment and, and, uh, and that then there became the backlash where people were trying to unratify, 4:00you know, in, in '74, '75 'cause one of the jobs I got right out of Rice was working for the State legislature. I got on the staff of a, of a legislator from San Antonio because I spoke Spanish, you know.

Margaret Barry: Right.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: And, uh, and people would come up to the State capitol, and, you know, advocating that we rescind our ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment which ultimately had passed. But, uh –

Margaret Barry: So possibly like UT might have been more involved or –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Right.

Margaret Barry: Do you think UT might have been more involved in –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Politically, yes.

Margaret Barry: **** so much bigger, so much closer to –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Yeah.

Margaret Barry: – what was happening.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Well, Texas-wise and then, you know, there's 50 thou, I think there were like, you know –

Margaret Barry: Right.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: – 30 to 35,000, 40,000 students at the time versus Rice's 2500, so –

Margaret Barry: Right.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: So you've got, you know, a lot more people, people involved there and, and I think, you know, lot of people from Rice were from other parts of the country. I think only like less than 50 percent were from Texas that, 5:00you know, made up the student body and so a lot of people, you know, were, were kind of tuned in to what was going on in the areas where they, where they, uh, came from. And I, I remember that a couple of people did – not myself, but a couple of people did do some of the march on Washington, you know, 'cause there were, at that time there was a lot of protest against the, the Vietnam War so I think a lot of people like Thanksgiving breaks, spring break, you know, whenever there was a, you know, four-day, there would be some kind of a rally or something like that and people would head to Washington, D.C. in order to participate in that but I, but I never did that. I had to study.

Margaret Barry: So academics were a very vigorous here in the '70s?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Well, I think, you know, I think that, uh, you know, you wanted to – yes, I think so, I think that that can be said, you know, uh, that, uh, the academic standards certainly were challenging at that time.

6:00

Margaret Barry: Yeah.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: I don't think that I felt as, I thought, I don't feel like it was as competitive as things were when I was in high school. I came from a high school that had 3,000 students so, and my, you know, my senior class was, you know, it was very competitive and, uh, but I felt like once I got to Rice, you know, I was, the, the, I didn't feel that it was as competitive, and I know that sounds strange and I don't know if it's the same way now but it felt like somehow you were, you didn't have as much to prove, you know, it was already, like you'd already proved it because by getting in to Rice and you sort of had that acceptance and so, you know, kind of felt like I'm on a level playing field, I'm, I'm, you know, in a, in an arena of peers so to speak. So, you know, the pressure or the tension, the stress kind of went down a whole lot, and in that sense it was very, it was a very pleasant experience. It was kinda like –

Margaret Barry: That's okay.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: – I can enjoy it now rather than, you know, I gotta, you know, struggle or fight for that A or whatever, you know. It's kind of I can, I can enjoy the academics for the sake of the academics. And so that sort of, it 7:00was kind of a paradigm shift you talk about, you know, I think that that, that occurred in Rice.

Margaret Barry: That's interesting. Did you, what were you studying or what ****

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: I came in, I did come in as a math major.

Margaret Barry: Mm hmm.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: And I did not end up as a math major and I think that, you know, that, that the university is probably making a lot of changes, you know, that I ended up, um, majoring in English and Spanish. You know, I taught school after I, and I got the, uh, certification to teach. Um, I did stay in the math program my freshman year and, you know, I didn't, I didn't, uh, flunk out or anything like that but I certainly did not feel as, I think that I, I needed, there was something that I needed to have kept me in the program that wasn't available at the time. I mean, we had tutorials but the tutorial instructors that, that, that I had did not speak English very well.

Margaret Barry: That's familiar.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: And, uh, it was a real challenge and, and, uh, you know, if 8:00I knew then what I know now I would have probably stuck with it and, you know, I didn't know then that, uh, that getting B's in those kind of courses was actually pretty darn good, you know. I thought, oh, you know, I, that, that is one thing that, you know, that, that was difficult was to, you know, uh, to adjust to, and I don't know if that's changed or not but certainly, I think I would have stuck with it more, you know, it would have been nice to have kind of, uh, some mentoring, you know, little bit more one on one mentoring, that probably would have, you know, given me a little additional – I felt like I needed a little additional support. I hope women are getting that at Rice nowadays. I think we need it. I think we need it, I really do.

Margaret Barry: They do, yeah.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: It's really tough in the sciences and the math, and you know, ultimately everything, all's well that ends well because, you know, I remember my math, I remember my chemistry and physics from, from high school and I work now for, uh, Texas Instruments, a technology company, so I mean, you know, it, it kind of, and I'm a CPA so I went back to the math eventually, it's 9:00just that it's more of an applied math and I certainly enjoy it. And financially planning, I do financial planning and statistical analysis and forecasting and things like that. So all the tools that I, you know, the building blocks that I started with at Rice, you know, I just kind of look at it as an opportunity. What I got was the, um, the rigors of academia, the ability, you know, the, the expression of ideas, those types of things.

Margaret Barry: Yeah. Coming back to Rice now, you live in Dallas now.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Mm hmm.

Margaret Barry: I'm sure you, I mean, you've probably been here since – I know you've been here since 1974.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: No, yeah.

Margaret Barry: But what change, what changes do you notice, like in the physical campus and also in what you maybe read in Sallyport or what you've heard about. What kind of changes do you see? What are the biggest things that stand out to you?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: One-way streets.

Margaret Barry: ****

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: When I came here for the alumni college last year and learned the hard way that it's one way up here in front of the –

10:00

Margaret Barry: Mm hmm.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: – or over, back over this way, I don't know what the names of the streets. Um, and of course the new, the new buildings, the new structures, certainly having a, having a business school on campus is really, you know, that wasn't, uh, to my recollection really, like maybe there were a couple of accounting classes when I was here. So I think that, that's a, a change. Certainly the co-ed, you know, the co-ed colleges, those were started actually in my era. We were real groundbreakers back then.

Margaret Barry: Oh, yeah.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: To actually propose co-ed colleges and Baker, I think being Baker and, uh, being one of the first.

Margaret Barry: Mm hmm.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Baker and then Jones I think. I think Brown was the last, wasn't it?

Margaret Barry: I don't, I've always heard that Sid was the last ****

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Yeah.

Margaret Barry: **** whatever, yeah. But –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: I think, if I can think of others 'cause I do read the Sallyport and, you know, I, I think it's, I kinda get a sense of continuity more than, than drastic change. I mean, I, you know, I, um, because I, you 11:00know, I think that it's, uh, you know, I come back every year, I try to come back every year for home, for the homecoming, uh, try to stay active in Dallas with the alumni. I was, I was, uh, president, if you will. We, we kept changing the title like czar, czarina, potentate of, you know, the, the alumni club in Dallas. You know, and I was, I was the, the, uh, figurehead one year. Tried to do, you know, activities, get professors to come up and speak and. But I think Rice has come, I mean, you know, I'm proud, I mean, actually, you know, you hear about it, you know, like the economic summit was wonderful, a wonderful opportunity –

Margaret Barry: Yeah.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: – you know, it's kind of, um, you know, certainly, you know, it sort of affords one a lot of bragging rights, you know, about a lot of the things that are going on here so I think, I think the, uh, progress continues. I think it's probably, you know, you know, but the changes that I've is just more, more growth of, you know, natural evolution ****. I could be totally living in a dream world.

12:00

Margaret Barry: Um, let's see. When you were here at Rice, when you were here at Jones, were, were you involved in the college government, or was it different then? Did you have college government ****?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Yeah, yeah.

Margaret Barry: Were you involved with that?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Yeah, I was, uh, off campus representative at Jones for my junior year and then I moved to off campus senator with the, the students, I guess the **** the student –

Margaret Barry: The Student Association?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Student Association, I was off campus senator. So, 'cause at the time, off campus, we always felt like off campus students, you know, everything's kind of geared toward the residential colleges, the college system and it's real, you know, it's real difficult when you're a commuting student to kind of feel like you're a part of the experience. I feel like I was part of the experience. I felt like other people were having problems making the bridge so we tried to, you know, we did a lot of keggers and we got a bud –, we forced the Student Association into giving the off campus students a budget so we could spend the money, you know, to, to ****. We felt like we were 13:00contributing so we got to have some say-so over how the money was allocated to certain events so, so we brought in, you know, um, musical events and, and so it was a good experience too. Good leadership experience as far as being able to organize and put those things together and, and put fliers up and get people to come and have good turnouts and so forth.

Margaret Barry: Right. Did, when, when you first came here, all the colleges that are currently here, the eight –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Mm hmm.

Margaret Barry: Were there eight already or –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Mm hmm.

Margaret Barry: – was Sid not –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: I think Sid was, uh, just finished.

Margaret Barry: Oh, okay.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Just being, because it was here when I was here, I know it was completed when I was here 'cause that's where all the jocks lived.

Margaret Barry: Oh, really?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: It was the jock dorm. So –

Margaret Barry: What was Rice like socially? I know you said you studied a lot but I'm sure –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Well –

Margaret Barry: ****

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: It was great, it really was great. I mean, there was a lot 14:00of, um, there was a lot of stuff to do on campus, I mean, you know, it was, you know, almost every weekend one of the colleges was doing, would put on something. I got involved in Players, and um, you know, the guy I was dating worked at the radio station, you know, had a, had a Friday night shift, and, uh, so that was kinda – so I got tied into all the people that, you know, at the Rice radio station. Um, you know, he, he played soccer, it was kind of interesting, I'll tell you about my, my boyfriend, but you kind of, you know, but I also got involved in a few things that, you know, like the Players, he would, you know, I got him involved in that. But he played soccer and, uh, so, um, an interesting story was, uh, Baker College bought a big bus, painted it bright red and my roommate Debbie and I, um, had trouble making ends meet one year and so we got jobs driving school buses and in order to do that, we had to get, you know, commercial, uh, chauffeurs driver's licenses. Well, when, when Baker found out we had, you know, we were only two of like four people on campus 15:00that had the chauffeurs license and it just so happened that two of us were women, so we drove the Baker bus. People would like lease the Baker bus from Baker College. This is a 1953 GMC double-clutching monstrosity and we drove the men's soccer team to Edinboro one weekend and they had two games. They played, they played at Edinboro and then we, we blew a spark plug like in Falfurrias, Texas, you know.

Margaret Barry: I don't know where Falfurrias is.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: South Texas somewhere, you know, and it was, and we were like two hours later to the game. But we won, we had an incredibly successful weekend. I guess we left, it was foggy when we left on Saturday morning, the game was, I don't know, it's about, what, 400, 500 miles, you know, 400 miles round trip, 500 miles round trip, it's about, it's a long way down there.

Margaret Barry: Okay.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: And we left very early and so they had a game at 2:00 and then we came back, spent the night and, uh, had, had played Texas A&I. It was Penn Am down in Edinboro and then Texas A&I. But we drove this bus, we'd trade 16:00off, my, my roommate Debbie and I would trade off driving the bus. So they paid us, you know, we got an hourly wage for that, but, uh, so –

Margaret Barry: Did Baker pay you or –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was, I mean, I'm sure when they, you know, it was, I mean, you know, the alternative was for the soccer team to lease a bus from Greyhound, you know, which would have been hundreds of dollars and so I'm sure Baker somehow managed to, I don't know whatever happened to that bus. It was –

Margaret Barry: They have a, they have a car now, but no bus.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Yeah, no bus, no more buses probably.

Margaret Barry: Right. Did they have beer bike in 19 –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Yeah.

Margaret Barry: - the 1970's?

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Yeah.

Margaret Barry: Oh, I heard you talking about that just a minute ago actually.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Yeah, um – I don't, I don't like beer. I don't drink beer. But, uh, but uh, you know, I just, I went to it but it was pretty, you know, it was kind of an interesting time, you know, to, to watch. And it always seemed to be, you know, uh, you know, very, and it seems like the, um, the, the 17:00women, they, they used to have this **** trike thing I heard about but, you know, in our era, I think that kind of, you know, nobody was, none of the, the women's colleges were very much interested in that. It was beneath us, you know, we didn't like to –

Margaret Barry: Right.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: – do that, you know, it wasn't a very '70s thing to do. So I, I basically remember being there as an observer.

Margaret Barry: Right. Um, I know now that people complain about the dating situation at Rice, that people at Rice don't date. Back in the '70s was that also the truth, that, or was there a lot of dating, a lot of –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Well, yes, yes, I think so. I mean, I never, you know, of course, you know, there's a lot to be said for, for four guys to one female ratio.

Margaret Barry: Mm hmm.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: So, you know, from, from, from a female standpoint, you know, there was, uh, I didn't, I never knew of anyone particularly complaining 18:00about – plus I don't think it was an era of dating. It was more of a group, you know, you did things in groups, you did things in clubs.

Margaret Barry: Yeah, yeah

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: You know, you had, you had friends and, um, and Debbie and I had, you know, quite a lot of male friends that lived on campus and, um, you know, like I said, we were driving the bus trying to make ends meet and they would like buy food, like on the weekends when food service wasn't available, they'd buy food, they'd buy, you know, big ol' roasts and, you know, enough to feed an army and they'd buy food, and we, we would cook it which, you know, we didn't, you know, plus we got the benefit of eating, you know, all this food for nothing so, so we had a very enterprising kind of arrangement worked out, you know. But as far as socially, I don't recall, uh, you know, any, any issues in that area that – I think a lot of people were, um, I mean like probably another person would give you a different answer but, but, uh, that's always 19:00kind of – I thought it was just, you know, there are a lot of people that kind of paired off, you know, and stayed that way for the entire, entire time and then there were others of us that, you know, kind of, you know, dated for awhile and then, uh, didn't, and, uh, so didn't, didn't get tied down. I only got married like two years ago so –

Margaret Barry: Wow.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: So I sort of took my time.

Margaret Barry: Let's see. I guess, uh, we probably have time for one more question.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Okay.

Margaret Barry: **** stay for about half an hour –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Yeah.

Margaret Barry: – and didn't check my watch.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Yeah.

Margaret Barry: So, um, if there were, what is, if you can do this, say the most important thing or most worthwhile thing or most memorable thing you remember about what you learned at Rice, and perhaps something else that you wish you'd learned at Rice, that you didn't learn until later.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Um, well, I think the most memorable thing about Rice are the people. The, the people in my class plus or minus a year are still my 20:00friends, we're still close, we still see each other, um, um, you know, we have – there's one person that has a ranch party every year, you know, Taylor, Texas, and he invites everybody and, and so I think that that's, that's, I've talked to other people at other universities and they've just, it, it's very foreign to them, they don't, you know, that's something that they don't have. And I think the most valuable thing that I've learned at Rice was, you know, academically speaking was just, you know, the ability to, um, read five books in a week and pick up my feet and, you know, that, that, you know, um, that sometimes the impossible can be made possible or you can find a way to, to get through it. And, um, I think the thing that, uh, I learned after I, I left Rice was, um, you know, that I probably didn't take advantage of, of what all I could have taken advantage of while I was here so even though I was here and I was 21:00trying very hard to take advantage of things, you know, it's, it's unfortunate you have to sleep eight hours every night –

Margaret Barry: Yes.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: – 'cause there's really so much to do, you know, and I, and I hope that the others are valuing that. You know, it's probably cliché but, you know, once you leave it, you, you look back and think, gosh, that was a really great experience and then even more so when you talk to other people and you find out about their university experiences, you know, it's, it's, um, it was definitely a, you know, a, a, a real bonus, a real kind of lifetime kind of special four years, so I think that's why I enjoy coming back to these **** and so forth. So –

Margaret Barry: **** reliving that –

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: No, yeah –

Margaret Barry: ****, no.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: You can't go back. You can't go back, you know, little memories kind of creep in, you know, oh, yeah, I remember this time or I remember, you know, and, you know, you don't remember the, the only time, you don't remember the pain and agony of finals or, you know, the, the paper, you 22:00know, that, that's due certainly. Actually, you sort do but, but, um, but when you come back later, you don't have to dwell on those, shall we say, you can, you know, kind of think of the – and I'm not, and I, um, I think it's very important, you know, I, as an alumni, I support finance, you know, **** to my financial abilities, **** so that programs can continue and other people can have the opportunities that, uh, you know, that I had so I think it's real important to, you know, continue to support the university both with my time as well as, you know, with what I can donate and I think that, that, uh, that's real important.

Margaret Barry: Okay. Thank you very much for talking with me.

Kathy Kinedo Wyman: Okay.

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